Hi all again, and thanks Mike..such a nice welcoming..Wow, Im speechless.
Well, i hope Mike, that you do not feel left out..Your contributions are going to be utilized in the book as well. I need all the info I can get, and for those of you who live near Traverse, by all means spread the word about this forum. I am still intrigued with the stories that I reread on here, and as I write and layout the book the peices of the puzzle begin to mesh. However, please continue to post stories and ask questions as I need all this to inform of everything in the book. I cannot tell you all, because we have to leave mystery so that the book will be interesting and not the same ole same ole. Is there anyone that can give me a woman's perspective of living in this sanitarium? Were the women treated worse, equal? If the guys can answer this too it would be great..Did you notice a difference? Mike I know you were young, but what was different about your care, and why were you there? being younger were they harder or easier on you? just things that are crossing my mind..

Heidimamabear33 wrote:
Did you notice a difference? Mike I know you were young, but what was different about your care, and why were you there? being younger were they harder or easier on you? just things that are crossing my mind..

Heidi..if I didn't know you were a writer, I would swear you were a Journalist.
Those are very good questions, which will require some soul searching in order to give the most accurate answer, but that's good, because all I will post here is truth. I believe that I remembered Ron all these years and looked up to him as a friend during our time at tcsh, is because he was the most honest person I knew. If any of my posts are wrong or inaccurate, I expect him to call me out or correct me on it, as he's already done afew times.

Now about the care, this is my point of view on the differences in treatment. Ron may feel completely different about it, but the way he was treated...I don't think so...
There was no difference, except maybe when it came to disipline. But despite their age, every time anyone ran away,such as myself, we were brought back in restraints, thrown in cold, empty suclusion rooms for weeks on end, all privleges or parol was pulled and we were put on high restriction,.. just like anyone else, no matter what age.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but it sounded like you were trying to ask if tcsh served the purpose that I was put in there for.
That's hard to answer when you never knew what you were in therefore.
But here's what I see when I look back....and I'm speaking for hall#18.
There was no goals that were meant to be reached, at least for the patients anyway.
I feel that all Hall 18 was, was a weigh station. Where doctors could experiment on children with behavioral problems and less known about illnesses.
Ron may have a different opinion on it, but that's how I feel about it.

 

Heidimamabear33 wrote:
why were you there?

Are you refering to the conclusion I came to later in life?
If so, this will require some explantions of life "before and after" tcsh in order to put thing in perspective.
I'll need to answer this on another post because it may be longer than this one.

Mike

I need all the info I can get, and for those of you who live near Traverse, by all means spread the word about this forum.

I've been talking to friends and co-workers about the forum and am not surprised in the interest they've all shown. Several have come & read through the posts and one comment they all have is that once they got started they couldn't stop.
It's interesting to me to hear their feelings about the SH and how it affects them.
I've had my personal interest/draw for as long as I can remember & besides the obvious connections, for me this is the first time I've really looked in to the emotional impact it really has on me.
I'm so glad you are going to write this book..........it's time.
Sandi

by Heidimamabear33 Is there anyone that can give me a woman's perspective of living in this

Sanitarium

?

Do you mind if I say something? I'm no book writer, so how can I say this?
I hope the word "Sanitarium" isn't going to be use in the book.
It's too modern of a name and has no histoical meaning per se'.
It just doesn't fit.
Maybe it's just my imagination.

Were the girls treated differently, I would say yes. I did notice a lot of girls cut their wrists while the boys did not, heck I cannot even recall a single boy who did this.
I did notice the girls were punished differently thou, like taking away their personal clothes and makeup. Them hospital dresses were just awful and I always felt sorry for the girls who were made to wear them to school. They even took away their bra's and were forced to wear ?? petty coats/slips instead. Even hair spray was taken away. This was a real blow to their self esteem. I remember a younger girl, Loreen who always had these privies taken away but she shined because she proved to them that they could not break her no matter what they did. I often think of her.

I need to point out that there was 2 types of treatment,
Pre 1970 Dr. Thill era
and post 1970 when the new children's hospital went on-line with a new directer, I forgot the new Dr's. Name thou but she was very nice and would talk to you. Punishment was changed too, the harsh punishment was not allowed and seclusion was only used till you calmed down, like hours not weeks. I was in the new ward in the hospital and it was both girls and boys together, and the seclusion room was not even there. I was the first kid to be moved to this ward, I was there 1 week until other kids arrived. In the new hospital we were treated like kids not animals.
Throughout my stay at TCSH even thou it was used at the hospital, I never seen a straight jacket. (that would drove me nutts)

I was fortunate enough to have been out-of-there by 1970. In fact, I don't
recall ever seeing any part of the "new" Hosp, addition being built while I was there or experience the relocation to a different school as you did Ron. Also, I never had the privlege of seeing the new restrictions go into effect.
I guess you were just lucky (just teasing)

I didn't pay much mind to it before,but now that I look back, I don't think I seen any girls from Hall 7 who were much younger than 10, unlike Hall 18. Like Ron mention there always seem to be girls with stitches in their arms, their hair chopped up, olive green liatards,or what are they called,,"leggings"(?) with dresses that looked like they were made from burlap. I guess I unknowingly made a mental note of that because it looked so out of place.

Mike, in 1968 in the spring we were all marched down to kids creek where we had our garden and all the big wiggs were there like Dr. ?? Summeral (Directer of TCSH) Dr. Thill and a few other people in suits and the press was there taking pictures and all the big wiggs had this gold shovel and the press took pictures of them digging in the dirt. LOL, this was the beginning of the new children's hospital. I did notice something ...... the shovel was painted gold, lol.
We never went sledding in the winter after that, because of the construction going on and because I broke my leg in a surfing accident standing up on a tobaggon going down that big hill behind cottage 36.
Remember the big hill and on top was a big field and a pine tree grove. The road ?? Long Lake Road was there too. Some who ran away was picked up on this road. I use to like our hikes up there and when it was cold it was always warmer in the pine tree grove.
To answer another question, us kids were treated better than the general population at Traverse City State Hospital.

Hi there Ron, Mike and everyone else! I finally setup an account after reading this from the beginning and some facebook pages. The directors name was Dr. Duane Sommerness. His name came up quite a bit while I was trying to find information on Dr. Thill which is still leading me to a dead end. I kind of chuckle about the gold shovel because I am a civil engineer working in Traverse City and we still use those on jobs today...LOL The road was North Long Lake road that you speak of..I also will email you Ron because I have some very recent aerial photographs of the entire county which show very good pictures of the state hospital area and they let you zoom in very close with great resolution. You can even make out very clear the fake "hippie tree" that everyone talks about that got hit with lightning back in the woods behind Building 50. Not the tree that Ron describes as the actually "Hippie Tree".

Dr Sommerness went out in the midst of controversy & scandal and is blamed as being a big part in the downfall of the hospital. Dr Phil Smith,took his place.

Sandi

I put a call in to a family friend that is still alive who worked there as a Dr. during the years Mike & Ron were patients - and hopefully he'll return my call & give me info on Thill.

Welcome Jim, my email addy is ron@ronnylarson.com
I would like to see this picture.
Can we use this picture in the book?
I am also trying to get pictures donated to use in the book.

Thanks Sandi for trying to get any info on Dr. Thill
Dr. Thill was straight out of the 1940's hat and all. He was a dead ringer for Clark Kent, the original Superman. When he walked he always looked at the ground and I never seen him smile. When he spoke you were frightened.
When he asked to speak to you, well you were in for it. He hated the culture of the 1960's and was trying to outlaw it at TCSH. I once had a pair of striped pants and he had them thrown out. My shoes had hollow heals and made a noise when I walked and the heal was 1" high, he had the heals removed. He hated hair, any length. The Princeton was the only thing allowed, look at my picture of 1977.

I know harshly worded, Mike.Have not used it yet in the book and dont plan on it...lol good call, Thanks Ron for rallying the troops for the pics...i might be taking a trip to Traverse soon. Would love to meet all of you there!! Ill have to keep you posted when it will be..I think I need to do some scouting, havent been there in a while need a new perspective..

Sandy,
You were in the TCSH? what time..how old..has it affected your life tremendously such as mike and ron or have you found peace..?? There were many people there that didnt deserve to be was this the way of it? such as ADD medicine is prescribed today. How contraversial!! There is a site i referred ron to whan i met him shocking it was in Time magazine..about a death that occured that Ron remembers..Mike do you remember that account? anyway here is the link..shocking how much was covered up then..

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 59,00.html