Hi Heidi,
No I wasn't a patient. I live in Traverse City, my father worked there as a young man, my father-in-law,(Clifford Lindstrom) was the Director Of Social Services there for 30 years and my husband was born to a patient there & adopted from there at birth by his adoptive parents (Cliff & Marcie Lindstrom).
I just got a call back from the Dr.I'd left a message with and 1) He came to work at the hospital in 1977 after Dr Thill had already left. 2) He said Dr.Thill was the Director of the Arnell Engstrom Childrens Center and Mildred Herkner was his assistant. 3) He gave me the name of Mildreds son who still lives in Traverse so I plan on calling him tomorrow.
I read the Time article, and to be honest with you am not that surprised. The SH was the biggest employer in this area for many years and it was the biggest "show" in town. Carried a lot of clout.
Sandi
No I wasn't a patient. I live in Traverse City, my father worked there as a young man, my father-in-law,(Clifford Lindstrom) was the Director Of Social Services there for 30 years and my husband was born to a patient there & adopted from there at birth by his adoptive parents (Cliff & Marcie Lindstrom).
I just got a call back from the Dr.I'd left a message with and 1) He came to work at the hospital in 1977 after Dr Thill had already left. 2) He said Dr.Thill was the Director of the Arnell Engstrom Childrens Center and Mildred Herkner was his assistant. 3) He gave me the name of Mildreds son who still lives in Traverse so I plan on calling him tomorrow.
I read the Time article, and to be honest with you am not that surprised. The SH was the biggest employer in this area for many years and it was the biggest "show" in town. Carried a lot of clout.
Sandi
He said Dr.Thill was the Director of the Arnell Engstrom Children's Center and Mildred Herkner was his assistant.
I would disagree with this, maybe it was planned that way but Dr. Thill did get the boot before the children's hospital opened.
Dr. Mildred Herkner may have been the nice Dr. who took his place, I just cannot put the name in perspective in my mind.
I'll try to get the correct info when I talk
to Mildreds son. I'm reading her obit right
now & also some articles about her son.
LAKE LEELANAU - Mildred L. Herkner-Balance, M.D., 87, of Lake Leelanau, died Thursday, Oct. 24, at Leelanau Memorial Health Center.
She was born in Traverse City on June 21, 1915, the daughter of Oswald and Elsie (Rickerd) Herkner. On June 19, 1940, she married L. Charles Balance in Traverse City.
Mildred graduated from the University of Michigan Medical School in 1940. She practiced pediatrics from 1944 to 1966 in Park Ridge, Ill., and Traverse City. Mildred practiced child psychiatry from 1968 to 2002, was clinical director of Arnell Engstrom School at the Traverse City State Hospital from 1970 to 1973, and was a member of the senior staff at Hawthorne Center at the Northville State Hospital from 1973 to 1980
I was just sent this and it confirms my statement, Thanks Sandi
Dr. Mildred Herkner was clinical director of Arnell Engstrom School at the Traverse City State Hospital from 1970 to 1973. She made our life worth wild.
She made changes and was the boss and there was no room for Dr. Thill.
We all danced when he was removed, along with many other staff members.
Heidimamabear33 wrote:Sandy,
You were in the TCSH? what time..how old..has it affected your life tremendously such as mike and ron or have you found peace..?? There were many people there that didnt deserve to be was this the way of it? such as ADD medicine is prescribed today. How contraversial!! There is a site i referred ron to whan i met him shocking it was in Time magazine..about a death that occured that Ron remembers..Mike do you remember that account? anyway here is the link..shocking how much was covered up then..
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 59,00.html
Yes and I also remember hearing about other deaths on Hall 6 that happened late at night and were hushed up, but the word still got out.
One of our midnignt janitors who let me run the buffer afew times, was always telling us about things that went on on the other Halls.
Hall 6 was the violent hall.
ronl wrote:I think Heidi was talking about the kid on hall-18 that I wrote about 1969, and all the staff was changed including Dr. Thill.
Maybe you have left by that time. Didn't you leave 1968, 1969 ??
My mother died in 1970. That was 2-3 years after I was out. The picture/ my avatar , was taken at her funeral.
I heard about this years later.
Well, I am sure that if i dig deeper i can
find more info on deaths that occured there.
i would really love to expose this attribute
in this book..So wrong..i am surprised,
there had been no lawsuits filed in this era
as it was so prominent...i guess it was well
covered..Deaths not only affected lives of
famalies but those who were forced into
hiding the cruel affects of this hospital,
such as ron and mike, in disregard of what
they actually realized what was
happening...That would harm anyone....im
sure mike and ron were in fear of their
lives as well, one wrong turn in
seclusion...is this what you both felt" the
fear of god to do the wrong thing, worse
than the fear of god...Although the good
aspects are spoke about..Was your lives
lived in constant fear and uncertainty? How
did you feel and cope when you knew a
certain person had been beaten and punished
to death? How did the stf react when these
scenarios occured..all hush hush..???
Hey Sandy,
What does yor relative have to say about the place , if he was social services director..does he say it was bad? he relation you have to the TCSH, is compelling...Is it for resolve?? confirmation of all that you assumed?/ sorry dont mean to dig..but even I seek answers...not just for the book,It is just intriguing and perplexing for me to realize so many lives were affected..I remember when i moved to traverse from Florida my sister telling me(who had lived there for 15 years) that they had let all the crazies out when they shut it down. sad to know that 3/4 of the people were not even warranted crazy to begin with, indue, and injustified....i wish more people like ron and mike would speak out....their livs were tramatized and they cannot get that childhood back...How unfortunate!!!Hey Mike, i figure ron has been affected although hes a trooper how has this affected your life??Now present relationship, medical wise? did it mess you up ?
What does yor relative have to say about the place , if he was social services director..does he say it was bad? he relation you have to the TCSH, is compelling...Is it for resolve?? confirmation of all that you assumed?/ sorry dont mean to dig..but even I seek answers...not just for the book,It is just intriguing and perplexing for me to realize so many lives were affected..I remember when i moved to traverse from Florida my sister telling me(who had lived there for 15 years) that they had let all the crazies out when they shut it down. sad to know that 3/4 of the people were not even warranted crazy to begin with, indue, and injustified....i wish more people like ron and mike would speak out....their livs were tramatized and they cannot get that childhood back...How unfortunate!!!Hey Mike, i figure ron has been affected although hes a trooper how has this affected your life??Now present relationship, medical wise? did it mess you up ?
My father-in-law died several years ago - he
had retired to Fl. and in his last years
when we visited he & I would sit up for
hours and talk but not really about the
patients. He was always interested in
hearing about his co-workers that were still
in Traverse City so I just filled him in on
that.
He did give me the name of my husbands birthmother one day when I was driving him to a Dr.s appointment and then clammed up. I wrote in a prior post here a bit about my search for my husbands birth family.
That search for info led me to realize a lot of secrets were kept there by a whole lot of people. My husbands birthmother was a patient/the birthfather was an orderly. To find who the birthfather was is where all the walls went up.
My father won't talk too much about the hospital - he was only there for a short while as a painter after he came home from the Army. He's being honored tomorrow at the Catholic Schools Hall Of Fame & I plan on pinning him down for more info during the luncheon.
One thing to keep in mind is that most anyone who worked there when Ron & Mike were there are either dead or really-really old.
I have cards from my father-in-laws retirement party in 1976 and am going through the internet & phone books to see if any of the people who signed the cards are still around.
He did give me the name of my husbands birthmother one day when I was driving him to a Dr.s appointment and then clammed up. I wrote in a prior post here a bit about my search for my husbands birth family.
That search for info led me to realize a lot of secrets were kept there by a whole lot of people. My husbands birthmother was a patient/the birthfather was an orderly. To find who the birthfather was is where all the walls went up.
My father won't talk too much about the hospital - he was only there for a short while as a painter after he came home from the Army. He's being honored tomorrow at the Catholic Schools Hall Of Fame & I plan on pinning him down for more info during the luncheon.
One thing to keep in mind is that most anyone who worked there when Ron & Mike were there are either dead or really-really old.
I have cards from my father-in-laws retirement party in 1976 and am going through the internet & phone books to see if any of the people who signed the cards are still around.
Correction(s)
Not to change the topic at hand, I just want to correct myself on a couple of things.
My avatar picture was NOT taken at my Mothers funeral, that's a school picture.
Also, my Mother died in 1971 not 1970 as I posted earlier.
This is the family at the funeral. 2-3 years after my release.
I'm at the far right with my little brother on my knee.
click image for a full-sized view
Kindergarden "1959" (or it may be 1st grade)
click image for a full-sized view
Not to change the topic at hand, I just want to correct myself on a couple of things.
My avatar picture was NOT taken at my Mothers funeral, that's a school picture.
Also, my Mother died in 1971 not 1970 as I posted earlier.
This is the family at the funeral. 2-3 years after my release.
I'm at the far right with my little brother on my knee.
click image for a full-sized view
Kindergarden "1959" (or it may be 1st grade)
click image for a full-sized view
....I wish more people like Ron and mike would speak out
It has been since April 2009 when we started to tell our story and since July 09 since I made hall-18.com and 2 girls and 1 boy have contacted me. One hall-18 staff member, Tom visits these forums but he is silent. I have spent my life living a big lie and the people who knew the true story was silent. (most of the time) Living a life of shame is very hard to do and it has brought on many other problems throughout my life.
When I saw staff violence I was numb by it because I was heavily drugged and I thought I was going to be there forever. This was normal to see someone in seclusion and getting shots to silence them and a beating when the shots did not work fast enough. We all thought we would never get out. I was even told this by Dr. Thill. When others left we never knew what happened to them, did they go home or some other place.
I feel other kids of TCSH will come out from behind closed doors once the book comes out.
Ron and Mike: I have said this before but
THANK YOU both for sharing your stories.
Because you both show such strenght in
sharing your lives at TCSH others will come
out also. Keep up the GREAT Work guys..
Thanks again
Tattle
Thanks again
Tattle
ron you said you hope other kids will come
out after reading the book...but my thought
is if the name of the book is" Where Buffalo
Roam"...how will they know it's about the
"Forgotten Children "Hall-18, Hall-7"? I see
no connection about the two. Just a thought.
I don't see the connection unless this was a
know fact at TCSH.